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美国:在非洲人看来,他们认为中国人关心他们吗?

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发表于 2018-11-30 11:05:08 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
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Danette Morara
回答于2017年11月17日

As an African, I don't really think they care.. They're here for business anyway. What i think many Africans like about them is that they don't meddle in our affairs. Sorry to say this but the west treats Africans as objects of pity that need to be controlled like kids. Not that we don't appreciate being helped but stuff like aid has done more harm than good here, in my opinion.

作为一个非洲人,我真不觉得中国人关心我们...他们就是来这做生意的。我认为许多非洲人之所以喜欢他们,是因为他们不会干涉咱自己的事。我很抱歉这么说,但是西方国家对待非洲人就跟对待一群可怜虫一样,想把我们像小屁孩一样控制起来。我不是说我们不感谢外国的各种帮助,但是在我看来,货物比援助在非洲要更有用得多。

Some of the money given by western governments came with demands such as duing our currencies and other policies that only made things worse. China offered the only other alternative for African governments to get loans with no strings attached. The west focus mainly with things like human rights ..yes, human rights matter, a lot. But seriously..the main agenda during Obama's visit to Africa was lgbtq rights, who cares about what their neighbours do in their bedroom when you are all struggling with school fees, putting food on the table and going to work via shitty roads. As president Kenyatta (Kenya’s president) rightly told him, it is a non-issue to Africans. Most of our main problems now are economical. And China focuses on that.

西方国家的政府给咱们的钱有时是附带额外条件的,比如让我们出台货币贬值政策之类的只会让情况变得更糟的附加条件。而中国则是给我们提供可选择的、没有附加条件的贷款。西方国家最关注的主要是像人权一类的东西...对,人权确实很重要。但是说真的,奥巴马访问非洲时的主要议题居然是同性恋群体的权益保障,当我们所有人都还在为糊口和学费拼命赚钱、走在去上班的烂路上的时候,我们谁会去关心邻居们在卧室里干什么呢?所以肯雅塔(肯尼亚总统)直接对奥巴马说,这对非洲而言不是问题,非洲最大的问题是经济问题。而中国人关注的正是这个。

When it comes to investing, they also adopt the same attitude. American sponsored university like USIU offer humanity courses like law (how many people can afford lawyers??), Korea is funding a tech university that's being built …the impression someone gets is that ‘they think African students won't handle STEM courses ,..but the east does.’ I'm not saying that's the actual attitude the west has, but that's what it ‘feels' like. The feeling that you and your people are constantly being belittled.

当西方国家进行投资的时候,他们也是同样的态度。像USIU这种美国赞助的学校里面设立有人文学科,比如法学(在非洲有几个人能请得起律师的??),而韩国投资的一所科技大学正在建设中...有人对这所大学的印象是“韩国人认为非洲学生没法学好理科课程...而东方人可以”。我倒不是说西方国家真的就一定是这种态度,但起码我们感受到的态度就是这样:那就是我和我的同胞们一直在被他们所蔑视。

Yes, we are aware they may/do have other sinister interests but in the eyes of the ordinary African they're the lesser evil.

没错,我们觉得中国人可能会有其他的险恶用意,但是在普通非洲人眼里,起码他们没西方人那么邪恶。

Richard Ali, I'm a Nigerian who believes in an African identity and the continent's history.(用户签名:我是一个对非洲人身份和非洲大陆历史有很深认同感的尼日利亚人)
回答于2017年11月18日

China is an honest dealer. What you see is what you get. And they are here to trade. After the duplicitous, manipulative, hypocritical relations with the West, no African or country thinks “care” is an important ingredient for anything other than raising children. In fact, we categorically reject being “cared” for. We are, precisely, not filial. On this we have no illusions.

中国是一个诚信的商人,你能在他手里看到的就是你能得到的,而他们来这儿就是和你做交易的。在经历过西方那奸诈的、颐气指使的、伪善的交往过后,除了在照顾孩子时,没有一个非洲人或者非洲国家会认为“关心”是个很重要的玩意。事实上,我们非常抵触“被关心”。我们可不想当谁的儿子,在这点上我们没有任何幻想。

China’s intervention in Africa will have the same effect as FDR’s New Deal. Already we are seeing effects. The West had its chance but after colonialism and neocolonialism, they still deployed ruinous Structural Adjustment policies predicated on earlier “loans” that masked massive illegal money flows to Western corporations. We are still trying to crawl out of the massive dislocations of that “adjustment” so spare us the care thank you.

中国对非洲的介入会造成如同罗斯福新政一般的效果,而我们确实已经看到了这样的效果。西方国家曾经也有机会这样做,但是在推行过殖民主义和新殖民主义之后,他们又在非洲继续推行破坏性的“结构调整政策”(译注:由国际货币基金组织和世界银行从90年代起在非洲推行,从政治经济社会各方面进行改革,以促进非洲经济发展),这个政策建立在早期的对非“贷款”之上,实质上就是为了掩盖从非洲流向西方企业的巨额资金。我们至今还在拼命试图从这个“结构调整政策”的大坑里爬出来,所以谢谢,省省你们的“关心”吧。

China wants markets, we have it. Africa wants technological expertise, China has it. Give me China any day.

中国需要市场,我们有市场。我们需要技术,中国有技术。无论如何我们都应该和中国走在一起。

Theophilus E.Daniel-Kagbare, studied at University of Benin(用户签名:毕业于贝宁大学。    译注:贝宁大学属于非洲贝宁共和国,位于非洲西部)
回答于2018年1月31日

Why should China - or any other country - care about Africa?
It is for Africa to care for herself.

为什么要中国或者其他任何国家来关心非洲?
非洲应该自己关心自己了。

The Golden Rule may be the ultimate wisdom, but it is hardly the guiding principle of geopolitics. But while self-preservation may be the first law of nature, China-Africa relations need not be a zero-sum game.

绝对理性或许是条金科玉律,但是在地缘政治中这绝对不会是一条指导性原则。自然界的第一法则是自我保护,但中非关系却没必要变成一场零和博弈(译注:一种博弈论理论,指若一方获益,则另一方必受损)。

A win-win scenario, however, requires that we, Africans, know and define our national self-interest, have a view of what China has to offer, as well have an idea of what China wants. If we expect the Chinese to argue our own case, we are in for regrets.

无论如何,想要双赢的话,我们非洲人就得清楚明确我们的国家自身利益之所在,了解中国有什么、要什么。要是我们寄希望于让中国人来提出有利于我们的条件,那我们一定会后悔的。

Question is: does African countries have a clue of their respective national self-interests?

问题在于:各个非洲国家真的了解他们各自的国家利益之所在吗?

When Japan opened itself to the West in 1853, it knew what it wanted and aggressively pursued its national self-interest. In a few decades, it transformed itself into a modern state at par with the West.

当日本在1853年向西方敞开国门的时候,它很清楚自己的落后之处,并且为了自己的国家利益而不断扩张。仅仅几十年后,日本就成为了可与西方国家平起平坐的现代化国家。

While South Korea lapped up American aid in the 1950s, it was not beguiled to become a pawn in the chess game of the Cold War . It used the access to American market and expertise to transform itself into a Newly Industrialized Country, within a few decades.

当韩国在1950年接受美国援助时,它并未被表象欺骗而成为冷战中美国的马前卒。相反,韩国借机打入了美国的市场和科技领域,并在数十年内发展成为一个新兴工业国。

When China, under Deng Xiaoping, embarked on economic reforms in 1978, it knew not to take the advice of the likes of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. The Chinese leadership clearly defined their national self-interest, and resolutely pursued it.

而1978年的中国,则在邓小平的领导下着手进行经济改革,中国很清楚不能采纳国际货币基金组织和世界银行的建议。中国领导层非常了解中国的国家利益,并且坚定不移地在保卫它。

Does the Nigerian leadership, for example, have a clearly defined national self-interest? And what the Chinese has to offer thereto?
Sadly, Nigeria can hardly be credited with real politik in its geopolitical engagements. Pride, more like. The 'African Big Brother'

那么尼日利亚的领导层了解自己的国家利益所在吗?他们了解中国人能给他们什么吗?可悲的是,尼日利亚在参与地缘政治时几乎没有什么拿得出手的东西,就比如像“成为非洲老大哥”这样的自信心。

What does the Chinese want?

中国人到底想要什么?

China wants lots of raw materials for its vast - still expanding- industrial base. They want market for its manufactures.
Africa have both. Expect the Chinese to drive bargains for both. Who would not?

中国需要为自己庞大的、依然在增长中的工业拿到更多原料,他们的产品也需要销售市场,而这两者非洲都有。我们希望中国能为了原料和市场来和我们做交易,又有谁不希望呢?

African countries should not expect the Chinese to promote the development of their own manufacturing base: they will readily use African countries as dumping ground for cheap consumer goods. That is going on already.

非洲国家不要指望中国人会来帮助他们发展自己的工业:中国人只会很乐意把非洲当做廉价商品倾销地,而且中国也已经在这么做了。

The most populous country of planet earth pursues the opposite of population policy of countries like Australia and Canada: they export quality manpower. Expect sizable Chinese communities everywhere they go, with the potential and capacity to crowd-out local labour for high-skilled as well as low-end jobs, even as you bewail unemployment. Already, you have Chinese labour hands in African countries. Be sure the Chinese will be do a better job than the Arab civil engineers we have to do our roads and bridges (!). Even while we bewail unemployment. Of course, we have a very 'liberalized'worldview.

中国作为世界上人口最稠密的国家,它的人口政策却与澳大利亚或者加拿大这样的国家相反:中国正在输出高质量的劳动力。规模可观的华人社区遍布全球,不管是在有着高技术要求的工作上,还是在廉价低级的工作上,华人都有把当地劳动力挤出去的潜力和能力,而你只能为失业而痛哭。现在中国的劳动力已经出现在了许多非洲国家,在造桥铺路这些事上,中国的土木工程师确实比咱们现有的阿拉伯土木工程师干得好得多,这个时候我们还在为失业而愁眉苦脸,当然,我们有着非常宽广的国际视野。

Unlike Ghana, which reserves areas like merchandising and distribution for its citizens, Indian and South African retail shops are common in Nigeria. In no time, expect Chinese corner shops in the streets.

加纳(译注:即加纳共和国,非洲西部国家)为了人民而保护着自己的销售业和运输业。而在尼日利亚,印度和南非的零售店却已经司空见惯,很快的,中国的商店也会出现在我们的街道上。

Let us be guided, therefore, else someone has cause to re-incarnate Walter Rodney pity-party in "How China Undeveloped Africa".

所以让我们聚一聚吧,某人会转世为沃尔特·罗德尼(译注:已故非洲圭亚那共和国历史学家,著有《欧洲如何使非洲欠发达》一书),来开一场主题为“中国如何使非洲欠发达”的弱势群体聚会。

Historically, trade and business have been the very crucible of civilization, facilitating cultural exchanges, enriching ways of life, via intercourse between peoples and different civilizations. Certainly, the oldest continuous civilization of the world has a lot to offer African peoples, generally. Traditional African ways could do with an alternative worldview to Western colonial worldview and legacy.

从历史观点来说,商业和贸易一直就是文明的大熔炉,能够通过在不同的人群和文明间的交往来促进文化交流、丰富生活方式。显然,中国作为世界上最为古老的文明,能够带给非洲人民很多东西。传统的非洲道路可以逐渐代替西方国家的殖民世界观和他们留下的殖民时代遗产。

Confucian way of life and outlook, self-discipline, Chinese medicine, the Chinese repertoire in the war against poverty, etc can only benefit.

中国儒家思想中的关于生命、未来、自律的哲理,中医学,中国战胜贫困的经验,都会使我们受益匪浅。

IF, and to the extent we are ready to adopt, adapt and absorb.
A big IF, that.

当然,这些都是建立在我们有朝一日已经准备好了来运用、适应和吸收中国所带来的这一切的基础上。

Peter Kenneth Nduati, CEO at Resolution Insurance - Kenya (2002-present) (用户签名:自2002年于肯尼亚Resolution Insurance保险公司任职CEO至今)
回答于2017年11月29日

No! We don’t think China cares about us. And China does not pretend to care about us.

不!我们不认为中国关心我们。中国也并没有装出一副很关心我们的样子。

The West pretended to care about us and brought aid that had strings attached. Structural adjustment programs wrecked our economies in the 90s. Health aid was tied to building military bases. The west supported despots who killed their population.

西方国家对我们故作关心,然后丢给我们带着一堆附加条件的“援助”。90年代的“结构调整政策”毁掉了我们的经济。医疗援助的附加条件是建设外国军事基地。西方国家还在背后支持屠杀自己人民的独裁暴君。

With China, we are clear on what their intentions are.

与之相反的是在面对中国时,我们却能很清楚他们的意图和打算。

Freddy Chikwiri, MSc Mining Engineering & Geotechnical Engineering, Camborne School of Mines (2018)(用户签名:于2018年在英国坎伯恩矿业学院学习采矿工程专业及岩土工程专业)
回答于2017年11月28日

No and honestly we don’t care either. We are not teenagers seeking out to be loved, we want business!

他们不关心,并且我们也不关心。我们又不是还需要爱护的年轻人,我们需要的是做生意!

China is an honest dealer! We finance your hydro-power project/railroad/university etc, we get diamonds/gold/coal? Deal - Y/N?

中国是个诚实的商人!“我们投资你的水电站/铁路/大学等等,我们从你这得到钻石/黄金/煤炭,成交?请选择 是/否”。

In a social setting, China is the guy who tells that this is a one night stand before hand! No misplaced feelings of ‘I thought it was real’ here.

说得社会点,中国就是个会事先告诉你“这只是次一夜情”的家伙!他不会让你产生“我觉得这是真爱”的错觉。

The West on the other hand treats Africa as a basket case that needs saving and will be extinct if they stop with their generosity. So they come with a saviour mentality, honestly they gotta stop!(Ever seen how ‘Spent a month volunteering in an African Village’ acts like a passport to heaven on people’s CVs?)

而西方人呢,他们觉得非洲就是个四肢不全的残废,如果没有西方的慷慨拯救,非洲就只能彻底咽气了。所以西方人都是带着救世主的心态来到非洲,讲真他们最好停下!(你见过西方人的个人简历吗,简历上如果有“在一个非洲村庄做过一个月志愿者”的经历的话,那你的简历在找工作时简直就跟直通天堂的护照一样好用)

Of course not all deals are 50/50 but being honest about your interests is half the deal done.

虽然和中国人的交易并不都是五五分成,但是清楚明白地表明你的意图,交易也就成功了一半了。

Njeri Akenga, Director (用户签名:主管)
回答于2017年12月2日

China gives Africa what we need and in exchange we give them back what they want from us. It’s a mutual relationship and not one of taking advantage of Africa and pretending to care about AFRICAN people. As an AFRICAN, it’s a mutually beneficial relationship for both parties. Though even with China we must keep our eyes open and keep some of the goodies to ourselves and not sell our souls to China (so to speak)

中国和非洲是各取所需,这是一种相互关系,而不是一方占着非洲的便宜还假装很关心非洲人民。作为一名非洲人,我认为这是双方合作共赢的好事。当然我们也得擦亮眼睛,别把好东西全卖光了,也别把自己的灵魂也“交易”给中国了(只是打个比方)。

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